Are RPGs Cruel?

[Ænorexorcist]

This was something I was thinking about the other day while sifting through my games and seeing the abundance of Final Fantasy titles. I realized after looking through my Final Fantasy Tactics save file that that game in particular is especially cruel.

What I'm getting at is, it's *so* easy to miss half of the best pieces of equipment, which wouldn't be so bad if the game let you go back to where you missed said equipment and reclaim it, but in most cases you've got one chance to snag the item and after that you're shit out of luck.

Take the Marquis battle, for instance. He's the only character in the game that carries the Masamune and Genji Gear, and stealing those things from him is no easy feat -- what's worse, most casual gamers would probably notice his equipment and raise a pleased eyebrow, but think to themselves, "Eh, I'm sure I'll be able to get it later." Wouldn't that person be in for a nasty surprise when he reached the end of the game and still had no item?

The same thing happens in other games. Final Fantasy VII is especially bad about it. Some enemies that give Enemy Skills only appear once or twice in the whole game. (Godo and the Materia Keeper are two good examples, as I believe they're the only ones who know Trine).

Xenogears is also guilty of this cruelty. I can't think of anything specific, but I know that if you aren't following a guide, there are a ton of things you'll never obtain, which showcases the entire purpose of a strategy guide, but the point I'm trying to make here is that it seems terribly unfair that every gamer, even those that are saved outside of the final dungeon, cannot go back and collect everything he's missed, or at least perform searches for the desired items that won't be entirely fruiltess.

Do you think the "one-time-only" items are more rewarding because they're more difficult to find, or do you think they should still be made tough to acquire, but that the opprotunity to obtain them should remain?

If you can think of any other games, RPG or non, that are like this, feel free to mention them.

[bond4154]

I think it's annoying, but it's also something we should learn to cope with. I guess it's just a stroke of caution, a stroke of attentiveness, and a stroke of luck, I guess. If I remember correctly, some of the GFs from FFVIII are also one-time, if not two-time obtain only.

[Rag]

I can't say I've ever been that bothered about missing the one chance to get a special item. In most cases you can manage without them, and won't find things too difficult as a result.

RPGs are cruel in my mind because they frequently tread the line between being an entertaining experience and just being a lot of hard work, and when it comes to sidquests they almost invariably cross it. In the later FF games especially, it seems they've given up trying to make sidequests enjoyable, and instead focus purely on making them difficult as possible. I almost never bother with them anymore.

I do think it's cheap when they include secrets that can only be found with some sort of FAQ or guide, as well. Again with the later Final Fantasy games, there's usually no hint at all that doing Tedious Activity #72 will reward you with the most powerful weapon in the game, and I can't imagine the player that would actually achieve all these things without finding help online or in a strategy guide.

[Archangel]

Nah, this aspect of RPGs are annoying but not cruel. I prefer to think that this aspect functions only to satisfy hardcore perfectionists instead of the average gamer. After all, just because you may have missed the opportunity to gain such items, it doesn't mean that you can't complete the game.

[Fangsworth]

I hate the one-time only items/events. I don't care so much the first time I play through, but the time I try to get everything, I always end up missing some of these.

As Rag said, I'm not a fan either of the secrets that are hardly found without a guide. Those secrets that only one person out of thousands will find because he got lucky and did the right thing at the right moment.

The sidequests for FFX and FFX-2 were terrible too, they were just very hard at some point and just made you hate that particular part of the game.

I guess RPGs can be cruel, they're not all cruel though and the cruelty is not limited to RPGs either. How many times did you miss a secret passage or a power-up in an action/adventure game?

[Darkbeat]

Hmmm I don't really find it cruel to be quite honest. It shows how much you are dedicated enough to get everything out of the game if you are that one person to discover a certain secret. Next to that it's these things that make the replay value bigger...

Sure you would like everything on one play, but think about it. The more you play a RPG, the more you will find out about it background wise, etc. That's the most interesting thing about a RPG IMO. I do agree on the fact if it's just a little silly thing that is missed and you would've needed to guide for it...that is messed up.

I wouldn't call it cruelty though...just annoyance.

[DarkEternal]

It's not cruelty until you find that the godly piece of equipment you missed was vital in staying alive.

One-time only things aren't really rewarding imo, there really should be a way to go back and get them if you missed them. It's really no fun to have to restart a 60hr+ file because you missed so much or, even worse, because you find some sort of evil boss that is nigh on impossible to kill.

[Black Velveteen]

They must mostly do it for replay worth, and it works. It gives you more out of the game, I do actually prfer it when its done this way.

[Jack]

RPG's can be cruel in some respects, not so much one-time-only stuff but the way the series progresses, Final Fantasy is one. Everything up to FFX = great, not really any hard work, or change, but XI being online is difficult for players like me who are fanboys but don't have money to splash.

@RAG: I also find newer games (not just the sidequests) Look at Star Ocean 3. It's a good game, or what I've played of it, but I get stuck in some dungeon that is practically impossible unless you have a guide or alot of time, even then its a task and a half to get through.

[Lord Mark]

I'm not a RPG hardcore person, so I really don't care if I miss items (except in FFT...) If I miss it, oh well. I'm there for the story and gameplay, don't care too much about extra goodies.

[Decoy Rocktopus]

They're not really as cruel as some of the old adventure games where you'd get to a certain point and realise because you used item x/did action x/forgot to pick up item y you literally cannot go any further. Man, that's just nasty.

The thing with RPGs is, those kind of items are NEVER neccessary for the completion of the game, and you can always make up for it in levels or other equipment/stat building.

[Scott]

I dont think its cruel i just think it adds to the fun, you go out searching for everything and anything that cojld be more powerfull than the stuff you have.

[Crono]

I find that in the sense of missable items, RPG's are a little too cruel. This is why I generally use a guide at some point or another so I know when I need to look out for "ultimate" items/weapons/etc. I understand missable items, but the fact that they can end up being items that could make or break you during say, the final boss urks me.

[Roadkill]

2 things that but me are missing score in ff7, and excalibur 2 in ff9. getting those is a pain if you don't set out to do it.

[SB]

i think that one time items should be more rewarding, however i don't think that these items should just be left to chance. unless you've a guide handy or can check online, most items you can miss and not even give it a second thought because you've never known about them.

i think that these one off items should be more than just stat boosters or weapons to make things easier because as M80 said, these items aren't necessary and i'd rather have rare items which can unlock story events, cutscenes and things like that.

as for thinking they are cruel because of this, i don't think so. i do think it's cruel if they need you to purchase a guide to learn stuff (which is probably why guides are so popular) but not when it comes to missing out on unneeded items.

FFX-2 would be a good explain of being a game which requires a guide because of the hidden triggers to unlock endings. it's cruel because you need to whistle at events to unlock endings the game never suggested this anything about whistling at the two events in the game which require you to whistle.

[D90]

I think its rewarding when you earn the kick ass items, but I do agree with the lax mini-games.
FF7, Chocobo racing, biking, submarines. WHOA. All good.
FF8, Cards. The best card game, in my opinion.
FF9, Sword Fighting. WHOA. Too bad you only get to do it once.
FFX, Blitzball. Fucking Blitzball? Arse.
FFX-2, Betting. Then racing animals you dont have control over, through a shitty 2 metre track. And a coin game. Involving maths. Maths. For fun. Arse.

Hints, or at least brief or cryptic messages, instead of nothing at all, would be good though

[Azrael]

Some times RPG can be unfair by forgetting to pick up a useful item, but it probably teaches you to pay attention in games.